tv Stossel Winning the Presidency FOX News October 7, 2012 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
let not your heart beve a good . see you back here monday. >> winning the >> winning the presidency, what does that take? >> i am paying for this microphone. >> this is all theater. theater of politics and it's trying to get people to come into the theater and take a look. >> yes, we can. >> you have to learn the campaign in the lens for the camera. >> campaigns are made of moments everyone remembers. >> the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull, lipstick. >> where is the beef? >> the moments they would like to forget. >> commerce, education, and the -- what's the third one
there? >> tonight we take you behind the scenes. >> we will show you what they don't like to talk about. >> but lying is okay in politics. >> what's behind winning the presidency? >> when it comes to winning the presidency i would like to think the choice is about whose ideas are better. when you talk to the people behind the scenes they talk about moments. >> there are series of moments. that's what matters. >> remember the scream? howard dean led john kerry in early polls but he tried to rally the troops. >> we are going to california and texas and new york. the room was noisy and people in the room said it sounded like a normal rally. >> we are going to washington, d.c. to take back the white house. but because dean's microphone only picks up dean's voice the
tv broadcast made him sound crazy. that unfairly may have killed his campaign. >> even images can matter more than issues. this video said to have hurt john kerry. this said to have helped bill clinton. in 1980 republican primary he did great until the debate in new hampshire there was a moment when reagan looked strong. >> i am paying for this microphone. >> that moment helped change the campaign. >> read my lips. no new taxes. >> the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? lipsticks. >> you have to depend on your candidates ceasing a moment you didn't expect to have. >> there you go again. >> most moments so far this election have been poorly phrased comments. >> you have a business you
didn't build that. somebody else made that happen. >> i like to be able to fire people who give services to me. >> put you back in chains. >> they call it gaffes but the med media doesn't know he lost the primary because he looked like he teared up when he was defending his wife. then in 2008 hillary clinton cried. >> i have so many opportunities in this country. >> she began to tear up her voice cracked a little bit. >> i just don't want to see us fall backward. >> she showed being human. >> this is very personal for me. >> pundits pounce. >> they see it as weakness. >> makes it look like her campaign is in trouble. >> it showed clinton 10 points behind the next day she beat obama in the new hampshire primary.
>> the kind of come back new hampshire has just given me. >> she tears up and that moves 11 points in one day. >> she showed aut then citihena. i think voters were attracted to that. >> authenticity is rare and consultants try to control everything. >> democrat bob beckel counciled houns of candidates. >> they are trying to get people to come into the theater and take a look see if they like your play. romney campaign trying to get lots of people watch. >> i think the stripe side and tighten that out a little bit. >> one presidential campaign in the fall general election involves 400 people advanced people, setting up a stage. >> a presidential campaign stop
involves a lot of work. >> most are paid to do this some are volunteers. the planning starts days early. >> we sent people driving around and said can we use your screen. >> director of candidate operations for romney. >> get to work. >> they try to make sure the right number of people show up. hillary clinton's presidential campaign was run by doyle. >> you make phone calls you do robo calls. >> hillary will be here please show up? >> yes. >> they even advertise in the sky. >> ready for the message? mitt romney.com/tickets. see if the plane can can do the slash. >> it is bigger than the craft. >> football stadium holds 80,000 people. romney had only 1,000 at the event making it look like a
total flop. >> 6 talented event people on the ground for five days. >> we are painting part of the backdrop for the shot that you see from the riser. >> campaigns ups ob success abo every sign every tv angle. >> you have to see it through the lens of the camera. >> we will take the cameras of our own and set them up on the risers we send to the press look at it make sure the aveng elts are rig -- angles are right. >> signs are always in the perfect position for the cameras to pick them up. >> because of how cameras work you have 40-50-foot banners to cover buildings and get into the sight shots. >> first thing you walk past that people see as he makes a pivot toward the stage. >> visual matters so much. campaigns come down to photographs and photography. cameras need something they need light and sound.
>> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the next president of the united states. >> we fail, the message stays here with 2 or 3,000 people in cleveland ohio. the goal is to make sure it translates to as many folks as possible. >> they monitor the events. >> can i get more hand signs to the crowd behind the gov. >> setting up one event may takes weeks. >> it may last 10 minutes. >> then they do it again. >> it loads in a truck and heads to the next place. >> do you ever sleep? do you ever shower? >> we went three-days without sleep, no showers. >> always with the fear that one simple mistake, even a poorly chosen image can destroy a campaign. ask michael dukakis. >> he didn't want to wear the
helmet. i heard his body man tell the lead advance person he doesn't want to wear a helmet. he understood that wasn't going to be a good television shot. >> steve murphy worked with dukakis. we have arranged for you to ride in the tank they will not let you ride in a tank without wearing a helmet. he relented. he should have stuck into his instincts. >> now he wants to be commander-in-chief. america can't afford that risk. >> do ads like that really work? consultants think they do. >> 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. >> they still rave about this ad. it was talked about so much on tv they say it changed all campaigns. it was the first negative ad to use fear and raw emotions. >> 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2,
1, 0. >> those are the stakes. we must either love each other or we must die. >> vote or die. pretty relevant. >> pretty unfair. >> mark mckinnon worked on the bush campaign that ran this ad that showed the candidates consoling 9-11 victims. >> our president took ashley in his arms and just embraced her. it was at that moment we saw ashley's eyes fill up with tears. >> this is the presidency. you are playing this music and we are supposed to vote for this guy because she tears up? >> that is exactly what they did. it was pivotal. >> it's morning again in america. today more men and women will go to work than ever before in our country's history. >> beckel worked for reagan's opponents. >> i see this ad come on on television it's this farmer and
his son in this beautiful pasteur. they put their hands over their heart as the flag comes. i today stood up and put my hand over my heart. the tag line is reelect ronald reagan. that is blatant blatant and good. you may think it's corny. stossel, you think everything is corny. but if you can get an image like that it really matters. >> ed rollins was campaign manager. >> one is intellectual argument one is emotional argument. >> when he ran mondale's campaign he saw this wendy's ad. wendy's was trying to convince people their burgers had more beef. >> some places get you a lot less beef on a lot of bun. >> where is the beef. >> you were at home watching tv with your girlfriend and you saw the ad? >> i saw the ad. my girlfriend said to me that remind me of gary hart, what's he all about?
>> that's not polling it's a comment from a girlfriend. you probably liked her too much. >> i didn't, actually. but that triggered in my mind something that made some sense that we put in the next poll. we put it on a poll and tested well. >> where is the beef? >> wendy's spent 100 million on ad campaigns gave me an opening line. >> that worked? >> turned the race around overnight. it confirmed in people's minds something that had been on there which was is this guy really up to it does he have the experience to do it on such an offensive all of a sudden he has to be on the defense. doesn't handle it very well. >> there are several things he didn't handle very well. that's another story. >> he was realing we went with another punch which is the red phone. >> the most awesome powerful responsibility in the world lies in the hand that picks up this
phone. >> again they use emotion to sell the idea. >> vote as if the future of the world is at stake. >> decades later. >> it's 3:00 a.m. your children are safe and asleep. there's a phone in the white house and it is ringing. >> hillary clinton's consultants used the same theme to attack barack obama. >> in this case it was barack obama can he answer the red phone at 3:00 in the morning. we said gary hart at 2:00 in the morning. do we think they may have stolen it from us? absolutely. >> barack obama, what a disappointment. >> americans say we don't like these attacks but they do work. in the swing states they run all of the time. >> if you are sick of hearing me approve this message, believe me, so am i. >> i am barack obama. >> i am mitt romney. >> i approve this message.
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convincing. first they ob success about convincing you. >> presidential politics is target the people who are with you at the beginning and leave them alone so you need to get them to vote. target those who are going to be against you don't stir them up. focus everything on those who may persuade you. >> that may be 10 percent of the people. >> used to be 20 percent. now it is down to 10 percent. art of finding that 10 percent is going to be key to all of this. >> no one did that better than karl roaf. -- karl rove. he used micro targeting. he compiled reason reams of information about people. >> if they own a gun what magazines. >> we had a micro targeted voter file in which we had 225 pieces of micro level information about them. republicans today drive ford
muss takes audi. democrats honda civic hybrid a volvo or nis son lease. they watch conservatives like dancing with the stars and modern family. >> you don't have to pay taxes for the rest of your life. >> liberals are more likely to watch law and order for 30 rock. >> tonight pbs will not be the worst thing on television. it will be john stossel. >> who is with >> not surpriseded liberals watch that. >> tells you things like if you want to reach an independent swing women voter by the house of guard check if you want to reach a republican leaning most likely to vote independent swing mango by the golf channel. >> he found many are christians who woch the tv preachers who might vote for bush. >> in the name of jesus.
>> in ohio in 2000 bush got 8 percent of the african american vote. in 2004 he got 16 percent. we were able to identify a group of african american voters whose history was overwhelmingly democrat we had crews that gave us a sense they might be reachable. >> they want to reach not just swing voters but swing voters in these ten states. >> you take a map in the united states and say cross them out. we can't win here. >> the rest of us most of us don't really count. we live in the wrong state. i live in new york. my state's electoral votes will go to obama no doubt doesn't matter what i do. >> if you live in texas same deal. doesn't matter who you vote for. texas will go to romney. why campaign in the other states. >> we don't. why waste our time. >> they do go there to raise
money from rich people. otherwise the consultants ignore 40 of 50 states. >> this is not about a national campaign. it is about persuadeable voters in states. >> two steps. first identify your key voters and then get them to vote. >> only priority is getting people to vote. >> gotb. >> i am a volunteer. >> have you had a chance to vote yet? >> hundreds of volunteers can knock on their door. call them once call them twice reminding them it's voting day. >> today is election day. >> you make the call again. >> you make sure they know where their polling place is. it comes down to this one day. you have to make sure your voters get out there. >> my name is annie. >> today the phone systems automate. a volunteer presses the buttons
it dials the likely supporter and a name pops up along with the script. >> the campaign called these people buffoons. >> this is a close race. >> the computer took track of who they said they would vote for their candidates. then on election day they call them again. >> wonderful. >> if you suspect they might not vote. >> show up in a bus? >> people don't just vote any more they pick them up there. >> i will show you how campaigns manipulate people like me. that's why we're supplying natural gas to generate cleaner electricity... that has around 50% fewer co2 emissions than coal. and it's also why, with our partner in brazil, shell is producing ethanol
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>> you also said that you are america's most tactless prince since carter. >> he smiled. they rarely show anger. they just keep smiling and laughing. >> thank you, thank you. >> don't get the impression that you aroused my anger. >> often they don't like the reporters. >> one can only be angry with those he respects. >> i bet mitt romney doesn't respect the reporters who followed him when he went to a memorial site. despite the somber nation of the moment, reporters shouted at him? >> do you feel your gaffes have overshadow your campaign? >> the candidates smile and repeat the message of the day. reporters feel as conduits for the message. >> their useless is what they can do to carry a message to the voters. outside of that they're useless. >> do you have a message of the day so we simple minded
reporters don't get accused by too many messages? >> i would never call you simple-minded, but yes. >> to build that bridge to the 21st century. >> in 1996, bill clinton said, "build a bridge" 22 times. >> to build a bridge to help our parents raise their children. to build that bridge. bridge. bridge. bridge. bridge. >> all right already. i would think a candidate would say to you, you want me to repeat myself that much? i'd look like a more ron. >> they do say that. the really good ones get it and do it. >> yes, you can't. >> you don't want to do, stay home. >> it's ice-cold and tasty. >> we follow them every. >> what you got? >
>> groceries. >> mitt romney is followed by sometimes a plane, more often a bus. the pack call it living in a bubble. nicole follows romney around the world. >> thank you, thank you. >> how many cities have you been to? >> i don't know how many cities i've been in. >> lost count? >> i have dolph lost count. it's not uncommon to lose track of time, day, time zone. i do know -- >> wake up, you don't know where you are? >> the room always looks like the same, but the bathroom door is in a different place. >> they video anything that might be interesting. when i was her age, it took four beefy union workers to do what she's doing. >> what do you have with you? >> a camera, all the cables that you need, the microphones, the tripod, and your personal bag. kind of like a satellite truck in a box. >> it's a tough job for reporters and the campaign staff.
>> the emotional and physical toll that running a presidential campaign takes on people is enormous. you're working 18 hours a day, seven days a week. you've got a candidate on the phone every hour, calling and complaining about something. you just want to tell them to shut up and get back to work. it also requires having an understanding wife or you're divorced, you know. in my case, i got divorced. >> if you like vegetables, it's probably not for you. if you like sleep it might not be for you, but it's fascinating. >> the 18-hour days don't seem like 18-hour days. they seem like it happens like that. >> nicole gets just four or five hours of sleep. she's usually up around 5:00 in the morning. by 6:00 a.m -- >> you have already received probably about three or four emails from the campaign, guessing you an idea of what the messaging will be for the day. >> the pac wants something new or a mistake. >> i've now been in 57 states. >> so candidates try to stick to the script.
>> for an economy that's built to last. >> for an economy that's built to last. that's built to last. >> nicole says she doesn't mind hearing the same speech again and again. >> when you know the speech so well in and out, it makes it that much easier to pinpoint when there's something new. it's almost like your ears perk up. >> the whole pack perks up, what was that? >> you see all of us furiously typing or tweeting. >> sometimes campaigns play with reporters, use us for their purposes. get a joy in fooling the media? >> yes, but more importantly in a campaign you want to have your own narrative at your own time. >> my running mate, dick cheney. >> before bush made this announcement, rove wanted to mislead the media. >> we had a guy on the campaign who was a leaker. >> how do you know he was a leaker? >> well, because he was a leaker. -- said, what's going on with the vice presidency? i said, look, big secret, don't tell anybody, but bush has decided to go with jack danforth
of missouri. >> the media ran with the false story. >> felt sort of bad, but i wasn't lying to the media, i was just giving misdirection to the guy who leaked. >> lying to the guy? >> well, yeah. it helps tell a story. when you want to have the story told by an evening anchor or the story told by the candidate who expresses in front of the cameras with as few filters as possible why he made this choice. >> four years later the "new york post" said john kerry had picked richard gephardt to be his running mate. this was of course a mistake. kerry had picked john edwards. john edwards turned out to be another kind of mistake, but that's another story. what the media reported even fooled gephardt's campaign manager. >> i called up dick gephardt, and i said, dick, i know you can't talk about this. he said, it never happened. i said, dick, i understand you have to deny it to me and everybody else. he said, steve, it didn't happen. >> why wouldn't you believe him when he said so-so emphatically,
there was no meeting? >> you absolutely must keep the conversation going on with the nominee and -- >> lying is okay in politics, running for office? >> lying is not okay unless you're asked an inappropriate question. >> politicians have always lied. >> i'm not a crook. >> i did not have sexual relations with that woman. >> the media used to give candidates privacy. even keep their secrets. they rarely pictured fdr in his wheelchair. they kept jfk's sexual activities secret. but now everything's game. that's a good thing. even though we reporters are obnoxious. >> the next time i prefer you let me finish my statement before you ask that question. >> next, you ready for presidential debates? we'll show you secrets behind the debates. the debates. hungry for the best? it's eb. want to give your family the very best in taste, freshness, and nutrition?
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president obama have attacked each other talked past each other. three times this fall they face each other. debate can make a big difference. >> you are never going to have as many people watching with your candidates together. >> the campaign can't control the debate the way they controlled everything else. >> no matter what you do as a manager to get ready for it you have to step into a ring and there are just two of you. you don't know. >> it's three agencies of government when i get there that are gone, commerce, education and the awe -- what's the furred one there? >> one brain freeze can end your campaign. >> the -- commerce and let's see -- >> rick perry was a serious contender until this debate. for getting is bad and looking bad is bad. in the first tv debate he refused to put on makeup it hurt
him. >> nixon later said more important than what you say is how you look on television. >> campaigns ob success over details. >> rollins and beckel were the opposing campaign managers. >> you remember the time we spent debating all of the logistics of it how high the podiums were going to be. >> how long was it? >> days. we had teams negotiating. >> how many times where they are. the color of the room. >> what difference would it make to the candidate what color the room was? >> in certain conditions certain colors work for certain candidates. >> because monday tail was shorter than reagan we wanted more distance between the podiums. >> the first debate came and reagan struggled. >> two-thirds of the defense budget pays for pay and salary -- pay and pension. >> he looked a little tired and ragged. the general observation they
spent too much time with the 70 some odd-year-old guy tried to beat every fabbing toyed they could into his brain. >> people said reagan is too old for the office. >> you already are the oldest president in history. >> in the next debate he was ready for that. >> i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience. >> he delivers the line around there is an impish sense of humor. you see the curl on his lips that he is making fun of himself. he is making a great line. mondale can't help himself. he is simultaneously laughing and at the same time knowing i have just been taken out to the cleaners. >> i turned to my deputy and said this race is over. >> just from that? >> yeah. i walked away. >> most people only remember one thing about the 88 vice president tal debate when
senator lloyd benson said when dan quayle compared his experience to jfk. >> senator, you are no jack kennedy. >> years later in debate al gore walked up to bush. >> al gore tries to come over and be the bully and get in his face. remember the moment. bush doesn't say anything. he looks at him smiles gives him the head wink and goes on. >> i believe i can. >> that was it. it was absolutely devastating to gore. >> you watch we all revert to our junior high mental ate when the team scores. >> what people don't know. bush had been prepared. >> judd gray who played the role in al gore in the debate crowd seen him pulled this trick. he said be prepared he is going to come get in your face. we all dismissed it at the time. sure enough it happened. >> how do candidates prepare? these two debate coaches showed
me. mark mckinnon and mcdonald prepped president bush for debate. late coached mitt romney and michelle bachmann. they try to rep date debate moments. >> you have a candidate stand in front as realistic as possible. >> strong bearing erect. >> look at colin powell. he just commands a podium. it's like this. >> it's about making sure that you fill the stage more than your opponent does. >> the candidates practice debating stand ins. for obama john kerry played romney. rob portman plays obama. >> you never see videotape of this. you don't even see pictures. >> no. there's a reason why. you don't want to show those vulnerable moments. we don't want to give away any component to our prep. >> in the 2000 campaign one of the secretaries showed the debate video to the gore campaign. >> it smartly went to the fbi.
>> what happened to her? >> she went to prison for a year. >> what's so secret? i freended to be a candidate. >> what kinds of limits are you talking about? >> yes. i can list cuts? >> would you cut defense? >> i would cut defense. >> so you are soft on defense. >> i knew how i should answer the question but under pressure it's hard. >> bring it back to the clinton days. >> my instinct is to answer the questions that are asked. consultants say don't. >> you are still answering my questions, but most of the time you want to be delivering your message. >> they say sarah palin was good at that. >> governor palin answered the questions on her terms. >> governor palin is that so? >> that is not so but because just a quick answer i want to talk about again my record on energy. >> she was able to pivot most of the questions on to ground that she was comfortable in handling the questions on. >> they kept grilling me.
>> you believe college is stupid? don't you think that saying college is stupid is an irresponsible remark to make? >> no. for some people college is stupid. >> you just gaye them some pap . tape. >> they are going to make a tclp of you saying college is stupid. >> don't vote for stossel he says... >> college is stupid. >> bad for kids, bad to america. >> knowing one bad debate moment can ruin your campaign makes candidates care frl. when ford was with carter there was a technical glitch. >> they have temporarily lost the audio. instead of leaving the stage to take a break neither candidate moved. >> we don't know what's happening. we are as surprised with what was going on as you are. >> they stood there like mannequins for almost half an
hour. >> they have fears of making a mistake or the other guy looking better so they were frozen. >> the first president bush was criticized for looking at his watch too much during the debate. >> it's a nonverbal clue saying i want to get away from this situation as fast as possible. >> that hurt him? >> he was widely viewed as losing the debate. >> al gore was criticized for sighing while george bush did. >> this is a major problem with social security. >> he looked like a duf if you say. >> he was castigateed by this as a result. >> the next debate he went out of his way to be docile and agreed with virtually everything bush said. >> the governor and i agree. >> i agree with governor bush and i basically agree with dick cheney. >> em bare racing moments are why candidates practice a lot. >> these discussions go on for
what? >> hours. for most candidates it's the most hated part of the campaign. >> the candidate ever get mad? >> oh, all of the time. it's painful. it's not fun. >> do candidates yell at you? >> collapse, walk out. >> they all do it because practice builds confidence. >> the confident guy wins not the one who is better. >> confidence not competence. that's next.
>> people that complai >> people complain political campaigns are too shallow. why don't they talk more about the important issues? >> there is a good reason. >> oh my gosh. how can i not know this>> who is this? >> i have no idea. >> there are all of these get out the vote campaigns. >> vote. >> get out and vote. >> i don't want to vote some people don't know much. >> it shows politicians. >> most people didn't know speaker of the house john boehn boehner. >> who is this? >> i have no idea. >> many didn't know nancy pelosi. >> who is this?
>> i don't know. oh my gosh. >> this is awkward. >> vice president of something. >> let's test the actual vice president. >> who is this? >> i don't know this. >> i know it's the vice president i don't know his name. >> many were better at celebrities. >> tom cruise. >> justin bieber. >> it's not that people are stupid, but most americans spend more time thinking about other things. >> average amount of time a person spends on presidential politics in the course of a campaign is probably about 3 hours. >> that may shock you political junkies who watch fox but americans spend much more time thinking about food, money, sex. politics is way down the list. it is the reason they keep appeals simple, emotional. >> there is a bear in the woods. >> republicans run ads like this one to suggest democrats are soft on defense. >> isn't it smart to be as strong as the bear? >> we republicans are going to
take action. >> jonathan heights research based on surveys of thousands of people say most of us choose political party lesson fact and more on which politician seems to be like members of our clan. he says conservatives worry b more about foreign threats. >> do i get this in my water mommy? >> it is the ideal around the water. >> more salmonella in my cheese burger, please. >> it shows the subconscious matters more than fact. >> the professor at princeton did a study he gathered photos of candidates from dozens of congressional and gubernatorial elections showed them to the people and said just check who looks more confident. >> he made a bold prediction all of those races they go on which
candidates look more competent? not beautiful but more competent. 70 percent of the time the more competent won the election. >> people were using their gut instinct. some with more narrow angular faces shown here are seen as more competent. as a face becomes rounder more baby faced people say that person looks less competent. >> they use instantaneous de sises based on looks? >> barack obama better fits the angular stereotype han john mccain. romney and obama look about the same. >> at this obama rally they were behind the podium when a staffer came on heon stage. >> a certain number will be of a different race in this case is a
result that the camera will see minorities behind obama. >> percentage of blacks and hispanics percentage of asians that's the way you do it. i assume that's why it worked out that way. >> that's why you are sitting where i am sitting and you are sitting where you are sitting. >> people have to be cynical about baby kisses. >> kids are a good attraction. i like to use kids. i am always worried they are going to pick up the baby and drop it. >> so much superficiality. for so much shadows and dirtiness of politics that is the good news. that's next. droid does. and does it launch apps by voice while learning your voice ? launch cab4me. droid does. keep left at the fork. does it do turn-by-turn navigation ? droid does. with verizon, america's largest 4g lte network, and motorola,
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>> politics is a nasty business with constant fighting. it's like a boxing match. it's telling this is what two of our consultants used to do. >> you both were serious boxers. >> this helps in campaigns? >> he takes a beating. >> here's what rollins looked like when he was getting ready for a physical beating. >> consultants say this prepares you for political beat. >> if you don't have a tough skin in this business you might as well forget about wanting to ever do it. you will be in a psychiatric unit. >> you also need a passion for politics. >> you were a supporter of nixon at age 9? >> age 9. >> what kind of political freak are you? this is not healthy. >> i have always been interested in politics. i was for nixon.
i scored a bumper sticker. i put it on the wire basket of my bike and road it up and down the street hoping to generate support for nixon. this worked well until a catholic girl on fire for kennedy pulled me off my bike knocked me off my bike and pummelled me. >> his opponents hate him. >> karl rove politics will finally be over next year. >> aping gree stuff. be beckel and rollins thought each other for years. they came to the interview together. >> you spend a career trying to kill each other's careers but you are friends. >> great friends for 25 years. you appreciate what your counterparts have to go through every day. he kicked my butt. >> it is reassuring.
every two years people vote peacebly and politicians abide by the results. >> in other country he is that's not how it works. he left office only when he had to. >> in russia putin may never leave. through out history most of the world has been like that. america electing leaders who later voluntarily stepped down with a radical idea after george washington served two terms king george said if george washington gives up power you will be the greatest man in the world. yet he did. then it happened again and again without bloodshed. >> in romney's world workers get the shaft. >> ugliness of this year's campaign. >> would you please wait. >> all of the shouting and fighting. it's good to remember our system with all of the ak krom minutes has worked better than so many